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three Leslie-Flint reporters speak out against teachers who talk about God in a deceptive, materialistic way |
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three Leslie-Flint reporters speak out against teachers who talk about God in a materialistic way
On the “God” page, I contended that most of the religions of this world offer a materialistic view.
Religion ever speaks of God, heaven, sin, redemption and the like. How can this be materialistic? The answer here concerns thoughts in our head. Thoughts about God, and talk about God, are not the same as accessing the real God.
As the best teachers on the other side, such as Spirit Guide Elizabeth Fry, take pains to explain, God is not “out there somewhere” but is to be found within the holy-of-holies of one’s own mind and soul. But worldly religion would have us search for God as an external entity.
Three reporters offering commentary via Flint direct-voice instruct us concerning this materialistic view of seeking for divinity.
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Allow me to list the speakers, each, of course, speaking from the afterlife. All three discussed the problem of the Spiritualist movement on Earth having drifted into materialistic thought and teaching and denying its core mission:
Rabindranath Tagore: A Nobel laureate in literature from Bengali, Tagore was featured in the Omega Point “beauty” article. In his talk, he explained that, during his Earth time, and continuing in Summerland, he’d learned much about “going within” and accessing God from one’s deep center.
Man has very little realization of how to overcome the self, how to release the self, the real self from the physical body. Far too much thought is given to the physical body. Far too much concentration of idea is given to material things. Whereas if man would learn to use the power of the self, the inner self, and concentrate on that, he would learn how to overcome, how to do many of the things which are recorded in the great books of past times.
The great Buddha and Jesus all understood these truths of the inner self which was how they were able to achieve and to do the things which has been recorded in history. In other words, they knew of the power of the inner self, the inner soul, how to use that power to overcome all the limitations of the body. There are no limitations of the body once you begin to realize the power of the inner soul...
But there is so much destruction in man, there is so much bad thinking, wrong thinking. So much time and effort is given to the things which are unimportant, and no time at all is given to the things which are vital and real lasting things, the things of the soul, the things that are indestructible.
You are spiritualists as you call yourselves, knowing some aspects of the truth, but even then, even among the spiritualists I have been in contact with, especially since I've been here, I have been to various places where spiritualists congregate together and very seldom do I see any realization of truth in the highest sense. It's all on a very low, material level, and in consequence they attract to themselves, many of them, souls who have very, made very little progress. Indeed many of them are very much the same as the people themselves. Indeed I would go as far as to say that generally speaking, spiritualism is not so much spiritual, it is very material, it is a very material conception of something which basically is spiritual. I mean it is very distressing.
See a full transcript of his talk here.
James Arthur Findlay was educated in Edinburgh and Switzerland and began his career as a stockbroker in Glasgow. He became convinced of survival after death after studying the mediumship of John Campbell Sloan.
After his death, Findlay wanted his Essex home of Stansted Hall to become a residential college for mediumship and Psychic Science. 'The Arthur Findlay College' is now managed by the Spiritualists' National Union (SNU).
Findlay, during his address, repeatedly spoke of how distressed he was concerning those who had taken over the college, now managing it in materialistic ways:
(excerpts from a transcript of his tape-recorded message)
Findlay:
We are very saddened and very concerned about the state of the Spiritualist movement. Though you have still some excellent psychics, some excellent instruments and I'm quite convinced that others could be developed and brought into being, and the movement would prosper in consequence.
But I do regret, that there does not seem to be any harmony, and it is a most unfortunate thing that this great truth, this great knowledge, which you have been placed with - the help, the guidance and the spiritual realisation that's been presented to you in your world, that so little has been done by so many who might be of great service, who might propagate these things, of which we so long have endowed the wait.
We get very depressed, you know. I suppose that strikes you as odd that we on this side should ever be depressed, but it is our only crime in the conditions of life over here. We are not depressed, of course... but we may enter into your world, we may enter into the conditions which have been created in your world by humanity all the world wide. We get very disconsolate, very depressed, very sad and particularly among those who profess to know these truths; who should be propagating them and demonstrating them, not only in the psychic and the spiritual sense, but in their daily lives as examples. And if they can't set examples, how can they expect others to follow them? ...
Findlay:
But I'm very disheartened....
Findlay:
I hate to admit this but, I realise that human beings are human beings. No one is perfect, of course. This is to be expected. And I know that there are sincere individuals who are doing their utmost, as best they can, in their own particular way. But I do realise, only too well, there is a great undermining of the movement going on here and there. I only wish to goodness it were possible to sort it out and straighten it out and put the movement back on the pinnacle, which I feel sure it should occupy...
Findlay:
You know as well as I do that I've devoted many years of my life to the movement, of propagating it with my books, and the endowment that I gave to the Spiritualist movement. How that it should be an open forum, that it should be utilised, that the house should be utilised for propagating this truth for the development of instruments that could serve and be of great service in an outer world, and they should use the college as a college where they can be trained, and where they could be sent out.
I'd always hoped that it could be used in that sense, that it could be a training college where people could learn about the movement, the aspects of mediumship, the development of mediumship. Where they could be trained, where they could be housed, where they could be educated, where they could find a way in which they could best serve, and they could be sent out and about to various societies, churches, propaganda meetings; presenting this subject intelligently, rationally, and evidentially. But it seems to me as if it's developed into what is a second-rate hotel - with not very good service and poor food! ...
Why aren't mediums being developed? Why isn’t the college being used as a development centre of good first-class mediumship that can demonstrate the truth to the world?
Findlay:
[But once they control the real estate and write the checks, you can't get them out.] I visualised it as a centre of light in a darkened world...
from the Leslie Flint Foundation page, https://www.leslieflint.com/j-arthur-findlay
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle: Famous for his Sherlock mysteries, Doyle spent the latter part of his life as staunch advocate of afterlife research. He lectured all over Britain, and other countries as well; Australia, for example.
Recorded January 17th 1966
Yours is a complicated and difficult life. Your world gives many...problems and the average person no matter who he or she may be will devote all their effort and time to striving to overcome obstacles.
Indeed, man has a nature that enables him no matter what the setbacks to keep on striving and struggling. But all this is invariably of the material and there are so few who are prepared to make any effort whatsoever in regard to the things that are of the spirit.
Even when a key, as it were, is put in the door and turned for them, very few would in a spiritual sense make any attempt, even when the door is opened, to walk through and see what is on the other side.
You know when I was on your side, I was so often distressed. So often concerned with people who even though opportunity was presented to them, they took little advantage of it and if they did, even in spite of their nature, they would not willingly accept the truth, the evidence of Spiritualism.
Even some of those who took the trouble to read books or perhaps attend meetings quite often, in spite of the fact that they themselves presented obstacles from within themselves, who were presented with evidence which would satisfy any ordinary, intelligent person - they would refute it, or if they did not refute it, they would find an explanation for it. Quite often more wonderful than the actual thing itself. There is such a lot that distresses one.
When one strives to assist and to help people find truth, the extraordinary thing is, that even those who profess to be searchers after truth, invariably by their very nature, build up barriers, so the truth has even more difficulty in making itself known and understood.
Even those who profess to be truly seeking spiritually, particularly those of varying religions...religious organisations where you would expect they would welcome truth with open arms, where you would anticipate that they would be more than delighted [to] have substantial evidence to support their own beliefs - even among men of high intelligence and foresight, you find that they build obstacles, barriers.
Their minds are quite often are so closed that you just cannot pierce the wall that they build up. Yet, many of them in themselves are sincere and honest, well meaning.
When I was on your side, in my work to bring Spiritualism to the forefront, to interest people and arouse their curiosity, if you like, so that they might find something of real value, something that would be helpful to them, something that would comfort them - quite often you would find, over and over again, these individuals who having received by one means or another, proof of survival, that they would quite often dispute it, try to tear it to pieces, try to make excuses and find other explanations.
When I went on my tours, when I lectured as I did so often and I expounded my beliefs, occasionally someone would ask an intelligent question from the audience. But more often than not, I think they came more out of curiosity to see the man who had written Sherlock Holmes. They were more concerned with seeing me, to meet the person, as it were, who’d aroused so much interest with his books, rather than come and listen to my deep-founded beliefs.
There were those who said that I was a fool. That I was ruining my reputation, that I was building up for myself, complications which would affect the sales of my books - that would affect not only the sales of my books but my integrity as a human being!
But you know it's an extraordinary thing, whenever a man of some substance, a man in a position, whether it is such as myself or whether it be someone like Hannen Swaffer or whether it be someone like Lord Dowding or Sir Oliver Lodge - the more respected you are, the more you are as it were put on the pedestal, of public opinion and affection, the more they think you must be something of a crank.
If you happen to say that you are interested in Spiritualism or that you’re convinced of survival, they say 'oh yes, such a clever brain you know, such a remarkable man, but you know of course he’s gone a little bit off his head in his old age.'
A number of people who have never said it to my face but implied it in various ways, in magazines and in papers and indeed, on a few odd occasions in my audience, who suggested that perhaps I’d been writing so much fiction for so long that I’d created something from my own brain in regard to this subject…
What is evidence to one person cannot be evidence to another. And of course, we have to accept this. But what amazes me is, the number of intelligent, intellectual people, men of repute who sacrifice, indeed their good name you might say and a source of income, and indeed have given up so much of their personal life to expounding this truth, are invariably looked upon as cranks.
As if we are a sort of breed of people who have all gone a little bit 'off the mark' you know. I often have talks to Lodge and I often speak to Crookes and many of the other friends of mine over here, and of course we all suffered from this. And in a sense, I suppose, we're still talked about and we’re still criticised.
Indeed, I understand that there are still many people in your world who, though they respect and admire us with our particular work in our particular field, whether it is science or literature, they still think the other aspect of our lives, which became the main interest in our lives, our interest in this great subject, this subject which should and certainly does affect every human being, this universal subject, this universal truth - they still won’t accept that aspect of our interest, of our belief and our great crusade - because it was a crusade.
…but at the same time, in this great crusade, and it is a crusade to bring truth to mankind, we must expect to be placed in the pillory of public opinion. And I know full well as I look into your world and I see today, although Spiritualism is advanced and has now become respectable, which possibly in a way is the worst thing that could happen to it - because anything that becomes respectable becomes perhaps a little bit boring and perhaps it isn’t as particularly as interesting as it might be. When something isn’t particularly accepted, people's curiosity gets the better of them and they start prying and peeping and wanting to know about it and tittle-tattle about it. But you know when a thing becomes respectable, it no longer has the same interest for the vast majority of people, although of course in a sense, there is interest and this I do know, but what I feel is the tragedy, what I feel is a great pity, that so very few Spiritualists are concerned with spirituality.
So very few are concerned with discovering the possibility that, that is within each and every one. They’re all concerned, well the vast majority are concerned, and not only...which of course is natural that they should be interested in personal evidence, this must come before one can have conviction - but so many of them are more concerned with material things; that their dear ones and relations and friends and so on, should be able to solve all their little material problems and worries and anxieties. And always they are saying to their friends on this side, 'now what should I do about this and can you advise me about that' and always it's to do with their mundane material existences.
In a...in a sense, I have sympathy for this. But at the same time, it seems to me the tragedy of Spiritualism that there are so few who are...who are concerned with spiritual truth, who are concerned with spiritual knowledge, who are concerned with allowing this tremendous truth to revitalise them and make them new again.
In a sense, there is so much that we would like to discuss, so much that we would like to talk about. So much that we feel is vital and important is held back, because of these souls who are brought onto a low level of consciousness - or should I say a low level of communication - because of the thought forces and the conditions which are built up with the sitters and even the Mediums themselves fall onto that low level, of merely being there to answer the material problems and questions of the average, so called, enquirer.
You know when I envisaged this subject, when I saw it for it’s true worth on your side, after I received the evidence and the comfort that was to be derived from it, I saw the immensity of it, the possibilities of it. I saw it as a great truth that would bring the whole of mankind together; that it would break down the barriers of creeds, dogmas and politics that have built over the centuries.
That it would bring men to an understanding, a real realisation of the purpose of life. And the possibility of a life to come and how that reality of life to come could be brought, in a sense, even nearer by living it, to some extent, while yet on Earth.
You know, the vast majority of people, even though they have some knowledge of this truth, do not or seldom allow it to become too important in their lives. There is no balance. We don’t expect of course, that people in a world such as yours, which of course has changed so much since my day, and which is a much more difficult a life to live and the complexities are many and vast - but nevertheless, one would have thought that those who truly have this knowledge would have some balance in their lives where they would, sort of, have this realisation and they would put it into practice. That they would allow it to be the dynamic force behind all their thoughts and their actions.
That they would truly be, as it were, a light, you might say, in the darkness of your world. But we are constantly, constantly being disillusioned, constantly being, I won’t say disheartened, but nevertheless, we are still human enough to feel the sense of frustration with those who we love so much on your side of life, who we feel should be doing so much that is vital, so much that is good.
When we go into the churches and the societies, and we hear the repetition of the mundane and the material, where it should be so vitalising and so full of vitality and life of the spirit - how few churches now, it seems, have Mediums or instruments who, as it were, can be taken over by the power of the Holy Spirit, to be controlled and used and speak the words of the spirit.
So many seem to be on the low vibration. A vibration not very far removed from their own. There is so much astral communication. There is so much communication of a low order. There is so much that is said and done which is at variance with the truths of spirit, as we understand and we know it.
I think back to my own life and I realise of course there were and must be difficulties. I know there is much to contend with, but I know this - that if a man or a woman is prepared, if necessary, to sacrifice themselves to truth, they will not allow any obstacle or barrier to stand in their way. They will go out and they will say unto the world, 'this is true, this is truly truth - for I have proved it, I have found it, and I know it to so be.'
… Until you can sink yourself in true service and in love, you cannot hope to make any change within yourself. You cannot hope to rise above the ordinary and mundane and material conditions of life in which you find yourself.
Until man sees within himself, the possibilities and every man has great possibility. For every man is a spirit and every man has the opportunity to develop the spiritual powers that lie dormant within him.
Everyone has the same opportunity. I know there are many people who will say, 'oh well this man has a much better background or this man has a better opportunity, because of this or that. Or this man has so much more money and so on', but all these things when analysed, all fall back to the mundane and the material. And I would go so far as to say that those who seem to have oft times the biggest obstacles, are the ones who oft times, have the biggest opportunities.
Because until you have suffered, until you have sometimes at least felt the need for the things of the spirit, you cannot understand nor appreciate them. And it is true to say that oft times, those whose tasks are many and whose path is harder, oft times they have, through their very sufferings, greater opportunity to reach through the sensitivity of things to the realities of the spirit. Because these things of which I speak are invariably revealed more to those who, by suffering and complication and difficulty of life, have become sensitised to truth.
Because you cannot find truth if you live and only expect from life all that is good as the world sees it - for if you are to see the good as the spirit sees it, then truly you must have learnt through suffering and have become so sensitised to other people's sufferings and have such feelings within yourself, that you yourself have made yourself more ready to receive.
In other words, if one wants to be an instrument or a Medium if you like to use the term medium, you can only hope to be able to accept and understand and appreciate spiritual things when you yourself have become sensitised sufficiently.
Editor's note: I will just add that one might sensitize oneself by a thorough introspection, a journey to the center of being. It's not a scenic route.
Those who go through life, or so it seems, without any undue concern or worry, who...those to whom life seems to present all the 'plums' - these people are the ones to find it difficult to understand the things that are of the mind and of the spirit.
All the great teachers, all the great prophets, all the great seers, all the men of great wisdom, spiritual wisdom - were men who suffered. No one who wants to do the work of the spirit must ever think that the road and the path is going to be easy.
It will not be. In the material sense often, it will be most difficult, most complex and indeed truth, although in fundamental aspect is, by its very nature, simple - nevertheless it has its complexities, because the human mind cannot necessarily grasp things too well, too easily.
There are many things, of course, appertaining to the spirit and the realms of the spirit that cannot be fully understood any more than we can fully explain them. But I do say this, that any man or woman who sincerely seeks truth will find it.
See full transcript at https://leslieflint.com/arthur-conan-doyle
Editor's last word:
These three reporters were well known on the Earth during their mortal lives, but fame did not protect them from a raucus public, intent upon rejecting knowledge of post-mortem survival.
Religion, strangely, that which ought to have been a natural ally of afterlife evidence, is most often the greatest vilifier and detractor. Even more strangely, Spiritualism, whose very reason for being relates to the promotion of afterlife evidence, has also taken sides with the world in offering a dumbed-down, materialistic version of the survival evidence. All three speakers attest to this anomaly.
These religionists, of whatever stripe, eventually find their way to Summerland, and, still unable to change their stripes, continue promoting materialistic versions of God, and, in so doing, take their place among the ranks of the “insane 500.”
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